Hardware and Number of Seats

[gmcust3]

I know and I have searched this forum and found many entries for this question.

But didn't get any definite answer.

Lets presume If I have a server with Below config :

Internet Original Server Grade MotherBoard
Core2Quad Processor
4 GB of RAM
500 GB of HDD
100/1000 NIC cards
Using ViciBox

Dial Ratio at 4 ( Lets presume always 4 )
All Outbound Seats ( No Inbound )
Dialing USA nationwide.

How many seats "MAXIMUM PROBABLE" can I support on this above config ?

[williamconley]

good question. BUT:

I will ASSUME SIP calls, because it would seem likely, but correct me if i'm wrong.

how many simultaneous calls? (I'm not going to assume that 4:1 dialing will result in 80 simultaneous calls if you have 20 agents, because we're all hoping SOME of them will actually remain in a conversation ... so you may "Peak" with the system wanting 80 calls, but you don't really expect to cruise at it? that depends on the quality of your list and the length of your pitch ...)

Bandwidth? (1.5M won't hold very many calls, so you may need to use compression like GSM or g729 to get over 15 calls ... BUT 20M will allow for a whole lot of calls without compression ... and compression EATS processor, which has a huge effect on capacity)

Recording "on demand", "all" or "none"? (once again, can hammer the CPU and reduce capacity)

with 1.5M bandwidth using g729, recording all calls, and a 15 second intro pitch that ordinarily will only keep 1 out of 100 prospects on the phone for more than 15 seconds, you will NOT get a lot of agents into this box. Especially if it's a Press One.

But ... a lengthier pitch with better "discussion time" (average call 30 seconds or better, with 1 in 10 lasting over a minute) and 20M bandwidth using ULAW, and recording NOTHING, you can easily get 90 lines at a time allowing 23 agents "at peak", but since you are only "at peak" at startup and if you can expect 75% agents "in call" and 25% "hunting for a prospect" at any given moment in time (good list?) then you could cruise at 50 (37 on the phone 1:1 with prospects and 13 "hunting" at 4:1 which is 37+52 = 89 lines.

On the other hand ... I don't know anyone who can cruise at that "Live agent" ratio, and who doesn't do ANY transfers or recordings (especially of sales) so SOME CPU always gets used in "Other than prospect dialing". Most of the time, 25 agents is a Safe Bet per box as a result.

And yes, I speak from those exact specifications.

[gmcust3]

Awesome explanation.

Just to update :

Lets say

1) SIP calls.

2) 1:4 ratio but when 30 agents logged in, approx 55-60 calls dialing out, with 23 on call and 7 waiting.

3) 2 MB lease Line

4) G729 Codec

5) All recordings

[gmcust3]

http://www.tvtworld.com/index.html

Built around Vici ?

[mflorell]

Yep, have known about them for a while, they are violating the GPL, but since they are in India there really isn't anything we can do.

[gmcust3]

They even say that in ONE single box they can accomodate 150 agents !!!

C-Zentrix is a call center solution with single box that is on single server you can go upto 150 seats blended (both inbound and outbound)Now giving the release of progressive dialing without an agent desktop hereby reducing the cost on hardware and human resource needed to manage the whole show .Complete functionality of the call center with IVRS,MIS Reporting,Voice Logger ,Dialer voip gateway .Complete end to end solution and have more than 200 customers like national stock exchange ,max new york life etc.
Operating system independent browser based solution with advance technology and 24x7 support and maintenance
contact
manshicayroll@yahoo.com
09650039991

Ppl like these DESTROY name of soft dialer and ppl are forced to go for commercial sol which cost $$$$$ !! Plus they carry and name abt Soft Dialer ! Worst is they don't UPGRADE ..

We have done so many installation and everywhere , its working silently.. Once done means DONE.. !!

"On a lighter note" , Mat and William, can u compete with them , setting up 150 seats in ONE box !!!

[mflorell]

Sure you can do 150 agents on one box, just get a 4 x quad core CPU with 32 GB RAM, only do inbound calls and no recording, that's easy

As for predictive dialing, I can't imagine how a single standard server could do that for 150 agents reliably.

[Op3r]

lol at 150 seats on a single server.

Yes if they are just using inbound, probably.


We tried 60 before but that was way pre 2.0 days.

[williamconley]

With ONE Vicidial server ... I can beat that.

200 = No problem (4 shifts, 6 hours each, 50 agents each)

And the best part is ... they don't have to share desks (that's how we got to 200 Seats, no sharing)

[gmcust3]

4 x quad core CPU with 32 GB RAM with Original Intel server grade Mother Board :

Outbound 80 seats with 100% recording possible at 1:4 pace ratio ?

[mflorell]

maybe, but at that price you would actually have more capacity and more redundancy and pay less if you bought multiple lower-end servers.

[williamconley]

unless you already have it, and you just want to know how many agents it will seat. which seems to be happening a lot this season (there are lots of empty rooms, and by empty i mean no agents or managers, but all the equipment is there just like it was when the room was abandoned, just a little dustier)

[gmcust3]

Lol

[opusgamma]

Hi guys , so to crash on your topic but i feel it will help us both.
I ma running a virtual contact center at the moment with a 30(simultaneous) agents at a ratio of 5:1.using Sip form a local Claro provider. our Internet is 3mb dls and call seem to have good quality.. this has been a pilot our goal now is to build 3 or 4 server and add additional ones for the database so we can handle about 10 times more 300 agents simultaneous at a ratio of 3:1
can i get a suggestion on equipment
my voip provider had suggested that i host our servers where they host thier gateways so we get free interconnections(looking into this) I am using a couple of guys from my country Dominicna republic that build our pilot box...but would love to get any suggestion on a support tema that cna work with us ongoing with this...
thanks
Regards
Albin A. Ortiz
C.E.O/ Founder
Opus Gamma S.A
Ask me about “on demand low cost, b2b new business developers”
albinortiz@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/opusgamma
1-809-370-6974
1-829-213-4500
1-829-581-6505
Yahoo : ortalmas@yahoo.com
AIM: albinortiz1978@aol.com
MSN: albin.ortiz@firstmagnus.com
Skype: opusgamma

[williamconley]

what are your criteria for hosting? (country, pricing, whatever ...)

where are you calling mostly?

and are you sure you want to own the hardware?

there are leasing options available and hosting options abound.

if you want to own your own hardware or not, but at that level (300 agents, 1000 channels), you'll want to be positive that you have (a) multiple providers or (b) a guaranteed provider who will never mess with you.

and don't forget, the hosting facility may need to be vicidial savvy (in case you have issues, hands-on the box ... can be helpful to avoid downtime with 300 agents holding their collective breath)

[opusgamma]

well i don't want to own since its a start up. I will entertaining many offer in regards to voip, I just dont know where to start..
it will be usa nationwide outbound sales.
can I get some suggestions. i will be needing 100 agents for the first 30 days and add 100 per month.

[mflorell]

The ViciDial Group offers hosting here in the USA for that many agents on a managed virtual system at a month-to-month leasing rate:

http://www.vicihost.com

[sunil_admin]

Hi,

I want to bring to your notice that your perception about C-ZEntrix is totally wrong.

C-zentrix is a single box solution which does everything that you can think of CRM, IVR, Voice Logger, Predictive dialing, Robo Dialing, ASR / TTS etc. and it does support more than 100 simultaneous agents and more than 150 simultaneous calls on PRI as well as SIP. Upto 120 agents I have seen but market feedback is that it supports more than that on a single box.

Also it doesn't require the hardware configuration which is mentioned i.e. 32 GB RAM, 8 GB is more than enough. We are using it perfectly.

C-Zentrix is a reality and not a marketing gimmick. So don't underestimate it.

Currently its among one of the top dialers in the Indian market and competing neck-to-nect with Avaya and Aspect.

ITs much more reliable and scalable.

The other advantage is that a 100 seater call center can be up in less than an hour provided infrastructure exists.

[williamconley]

OK, so to be clear ... you have a C-ZEntrix box (single box) with 8G RAM and ? um a Quad Xeon? or similar and you have 100+ agents with 150 simultaneous calls via SIP ... and this software is available ... where?

I'll bite, I'll put it on a server tomorrow...

[gmcust3]

Isnt C-zentrix is a forked version of Vici ??

[williamconley]

kinda why i asked for the download. the silence is deafening.

[williamconley]

looked around a little. seems like a tiny company with one person saying "i'm a big company and have lots of customers", but no reference to them anywhere other than one customer complaint that they claim is competition

the "brochure" on their website (oddly enough not named anything to do with C-Zentrix) shows only very fuzzy screenshots that are small and unrecognizable ... their press release is a listing of all the "claims" of freepbx/vicidial and several other open source packages, but they do not specifically mention which packages they borrowed from.

I get the impression this would be a company from whom one purchases a competely compiled open source solution ... and then finds out AFTER the purchase they just bought a lot of free stuff (after researching the altered screens for a while). but that's just a feeling.

of course, a list of the open source software included in their solution posted on their site would change my opinion dramatically, but for now it looks like they are preying on victims solely in India.

[gmcust3]

Mr Sunil , you reading these ??

[sunil_admin]

My friends firstly C-ZEntrix is not vicidial, it' a big propoganda which we also felt victim. It's a totally different solution and it's an option that has emerged as a sole competitor to concerto or now aspect.

There is no relation with vicidial , One gentleman also wrote something about GPL, I hope its better to write a mail to the company and clarify it.

They don't sell like other companies as people don't believe in bold claims until they see the truth, they claim you run it and then purchase. And you run it against the best and then buy.

It's claims are authentic, believe me.

Secondly its a new company and the sites and all like engineers build rather than marketing or designers build . I believe with time they will get a marketing look.

Coming to hardware for 100 agents with recording its somewhere 8 GB and dual xeon quad core will suffice. REst depends on our pocket. For smaller one it depends on lesser hardware.

I have seen more then 100 agents on one box with recording, IVR, crm and all.

rest you can call or mail them, get a demo and check it out.

[williamconley]

Actually, I would love screen shot much more than a demo (the time investment for a "demo" is rather high). Several screen shots (at full resolution so I can see if everything necessary is on the screen ...) would be the absolute best marketing tool for convincing me that it is anything other than what I suggested.

Please be aware that while you say what YOU say, their own "press release" specifies that they use open source software. It simply leaves out WHAT open source software is in use.

From http://www.1888pressrelease.com/c-zentr ... 1m53j.html:

We ensure robustness of the open source by doing extra R&D and Q.A to ensure that only stable features are picked up from open source programs. We provide our own maintenance of open source programs and ensure that only reliable SW updates are incorporated.

So ... flowery words and claims aside. What open source software is involved in their project?
Screen shots sell to the users of this sofware, along with word of mouth from existing users (of which I've not heard, certainly not someone in the US to whom I can speak ...). Screen shots ALSO (byproduct) happen to have a tendency to "give away" the underlying software.

I find it commendable that they mention open source being in use in their press release. I find it reprehensible that they do not obviously disclose WHICH open source before attempting a sale.

They do mention "asterisk" in their release, but I do not believe they "provide their own maintenance of" asterisk. Don't see that happenin. And of course, they speak of plural for open source ... so ...

If they have a superior product, I'd like to see it. Seriously. But if it's open source, I'd like to know the licensing model and the names of the packages involved.

[sunil_admin]

Dear william,

As a customer it doesn't matter its open source or close source. May be as a engineer you are interested.

The most important thing is smoothness of operations. If its good and saves money people won;t mind paying for it.

They are giving a complete product it comes with a cd, it installs OS and everything. Everything is done from UI like IP configuration and all. You need to get a license and start calling thats it.

Rest I don't know what all it installs and what all it doesn't. Since there is no manual interference required. From market feedback the telephony engine is there own built around multiple open source engines (?).

You can enquire more, if you want I can get some number or forward your mail address to there help desk. Send me your address

[williamconley]

As a customer it doesn't matter its open source or close source. May be as a engineer you are interested.

Aux contrare.

While function is important, the MOST important thing to ANY customer is "Don't Rip Me Off." If you sell someone something that is FREE, but charge them money without telling them they could have had it without paying, and charge a licensing fee just to add insult to injury ... you are ripping someone off IF the licensing of the Open Source Software you are selling forbids this approach. And if you never disclose the names of the packages, you have taken credit for the work of others and will disappear within weeks when you get busted. Which means your "support" will disintigrate, purchasing new licenses will become impossible and eventually it will all become useless.

That is the unmistakable ringing bell of "yes, it's open source but we won't tell you what's in it until after you've paid us". I do not know of a single open source package that allows licensing in that manner.

Unless you'd like to be a little more clear about this, of course. Because what *I* think I heard was "it doesn't matter that it's open source, noone cares".

You wouldn't want to elaborate and/or specify whether it is Open Source and if so under what licensing the Open Source is, and the names of the packages involved ... would you? Because if not, I pity the clients who end up with a non-usable "unlicensable" product. And to top it off they may do research AFTER they've paid money and find out they just purchased $5k worth of "CD media". LOL

Sorry to be blunt, but this story has played out more than once, and I'm trying to save some people a headache. I'd be happy to retract, if full disclosure or clarification is forthcoming. Very much so if the product is worthy.

BUT: Paying licensing for any dialer while Vicidial is on the market is ... well ... not entirely intelligent. Politically correct or not. It's stupid.

[gmcust3]

Rest I don't know what all it installs and what all it doesn't. Since there is no manual interference required. From market feedback the telephony engine is there own built around multiple open source engines (?).::::::::


Looks like u are a simple marketing person and yr tech guy fooled you by showing Vici as his own creation !!

Thats pitty !!!

[sunil_admin]

I am really amazed that why are people so critical about a product called C-Zentrix when switchvox, trix box,aspect other devices etc. exists and are saleable in the market. I have not seen a single voice against those that why are they charging.

You as a provider or consultant do charge for your work, even vicidial charges for support , documents etc.

Vicidial is very good, earning a lot of name and fame but that doesn't mean end of the road for others creativity. It's not fair to doubt other peoples creativity, we should appreciate if someone has done something good.

It's technology and the speed of change is so fast that you never know that tommorrow there is another C-Zentrix like product claiming that it touches 1000 using XYZ technology.

C-Zentrix is like iPod. The thought process is so simple that even complicated looking things look so simple. The beauty is that you don't need to educate people that it's a technology and you better stay away .

Good to see that atleast people spare some time to talk about technology.

[williamconley]

all those projects disclose the source of the software they will install. and trixbox especially has a good reason to do it, they are owned by the same company that sponsors the project. hardly a violation of the license to BOTH disclose and own the rights.

and *I* a "consultant" charge for my services and never try to hide the name or Open Source Nature of this software. My name is in my handle, I don't hide. The Vicidial Group owns the rights to this software and obviously enjoys the fact that HUNDREDS of clients are brought in purely through the OPEN SOURCE nature of its existence.

someone ELSE hiding the name and open source while acting like they wrote it is stealing from a client while simultaneously committing fraud.

If C-Zentrix is like iPod, which is cute to say, by the way, i like that (is it also related to JFK, LOL?) perhaps they should call Apple and see about licensing there.

The only problem here is that "theft" moment when you do not tell someone what they are purchasing.

The rules of engagement are simple: Reveal the name and type of the base software (and anything else included that YOU did not actually write), and you may sell your modifications for whatever price you like. If you break that rule, and either claim to have written the software, allow others to believe you wrote the software, or fail to mention the name of the software you are selling ... you have not followed the licensing and are stealing from your clients (and if there is justice, you will end up in court explaining to a judge how your software is like an iPod, LOL)

[inexistence]

Hi guys, i just have some inquiries regarding Vici. I'm pretty new here so please bear with me.

Im planning on building a vicidial server for 20-25 simultaneous users, 3:1 call ratio, all recordings, maybe g729 codec.

We currently have MS SQL servers running and a webserver so what im building is simply Dialer only. This would also work purely SIP so no additional cards/hardware are planned to be purchased.

MSSQL server:
Win2k
Dell PowerEdge 2850
2x Xeon 3.20Ghz
4Gb RAM
RAID 5 SCSI Disks

Webserver:
CentOS 5.4
Clone PC
Dual Core 2.80Ghz
1Gb RAM

Bandwidth: 4MB

Questions:
1. Could you guys help me out on the hardware specs of the Dialer?
2. Can i just build a clone PC or should it be High end/Branded servers?
3. Will my current MS SQL 2000 database server work with Vicidial or only MySQL work with Vicidial?
4. For g729 codec, how do we purchase licensing on this? Or is there better alternative codecs that are free with minimal bandwidth consumption?
5. Any upgrades needed for Webserver and Database?

[williamconley]

1. Could you guys help me out on the hardware specs of the Dialer?

Core2Quad, 8GRAM (for RAMDISKS to hold recordings, otherwise 2G is fine)

2. Can i just build a clone PC or should it be High end/Branded servers?

Clone is fine.

3. Will my current MS SQL 2000 database server work with Vicidial or only MySQL work with Vicidial?

MySQL only, no microsoft buddy! (although technically you COULD put MySQL on the windows server box, i've never had anyone do it)

4. For g729 codec, how do we purchase licensing on this? Or is there better alternative codecs that are free with minimal bandwidth consumption?

Digium sells them for $10 per channel. There is also GSM which has better quality and is free (a good place to start before going all the way to g729).

5. Any upgrades needed for Webserver and Database?

You MUST install Vicidial on the Web Server (full installation). If you REQUIRE CentOS, you can install VicidialNOW (which is an .iso installation and will install CentOS for you). You can also try to install from scratch on your existing CentOS web server, but I hope you are ... good at linux if you do.

I would (personally) recommend building the Vicidial Server first, with all services "on board" and look at moving SQL off the box onto another one AFTER you have it working, in addition to adding other vicidial servers (required for moving Web off the box or adding another dialer to the "Cluster").

You cannot have "Web" on a non-vicidial server. The Web services offered by Vicidial to the Agent require constant contact with the necessasry scripts for vicidial, not just a "standard web server".

Simplest method: Download Vicibox (Vicibox.com) and install it! No special hardware required, and you can install it 5 times if you need to "to get it right".