How to get an invoice from Mr. Florell?

[andrei.miron]

Dear Mr. Florell,

I bought from your company a month ago the manuals for Vicidial. My purchase order is 70302 from 9th of January.
Since then I'm trying to obtain an invoice from you.
I send email to (with company details) all email I found (4 email addresses) - I can't detailed them here due to forum rules.
I did get no response. So after a month I'm thinking that I will not get any invoice from your company.
Mr. Florell do you think this is a normal way of doing business?

I don't know the american way of doing business. Here in Europe a company not issuing invocies means that is doing tax evasion and sooner or later it will be close for tax evasion. So Mr. Florell do you want to present you as a tax evasion company?

Andrei Miron

[williamconley]

Andrei,

In the US, the presentation of an invoice is not in any way required. Also of note, threatening "tax evasion company" is in fact quite laughable. If you made a purchase, your payment method will provide you with your proof-of-purchase (such as your credit card statement or your paypal statement). If you made a purchase in an "online store", the online store in question will generally email you a receipt. If this receipt landed in a spam folder, you may wish to retrieve it and consider that your invoice. But note that here in the US, an invoice is ordinarily presented only for certain types of purchases and then is merely an option. Many companies, for instance, will not purchase from someone without an invoice. But AFTER the purchase there is no requirement to generate an invoice. During the purchase, if you paid by credit card, the credit card company rules ordinarily require a "receipt" but never an "invoice".

If The Vicidial Group is like any other American company, their gross receipts are tracked by their Merchant Account and any attempt to hide that from the IRS would simply fail. So ... your threats are empty and you'll not likely get satisfaction in that manner.

Patience and politeness, on the other hand, may get you an invoice if you change your tone.

Just sayin' ...

(Note: I am not in any way related to or associated with The Vicidial Group or Mr. Florell, this is merely friendly advice/information ...)

[andrei.miron]

William,

First of all I don't understand why you reply to me. You mentioned very clear that you are not associated with Mr. Florell or Vicidial Group to whom I wrote.
But because it seems that you wanted to say something to me I will reply to your email.

Andrei,

In the US, the presentation of an invoice is not in any way required.

It seems that you didn't read my post or maybe I was unclear so I write again:

I don't know the american way of doing business.

Also of note, threatening "tax evasion company" is in fact quite laughable. If you made a purchase, your payment method will provide you with your proof-of-purchase (such as your credit card statement or your paypal statement). If you made a purchase in an "online store", the online store in question will generally email you a receipt. If this receipt landed in a spam folder, you may wish to retrieve it and consider that your invoice. But note that here in the US, an invoice is ordinarily presented only for certain types of purchases and then is merely an option. Many companies, for instance, will not purchase from someone without an invoice. But AFTER the purchase there is no requirement to generate an invoice. During the purchase, if you paid by credit card, the credit card company rules ordinarily require a "receipt" but never an "invoice".

Again you are presenting me the way of doing business in America. Did I ask you that? Did I ask MR. Florell that? Did I threat Mr. Florell with something? No I just present how an european like me is seeing a company who is not repsonding to a question like mine. If you think that in Europe, or specific in Romania, the email from PayPal can be used as an invoice is just an evidence of your lack of understanding that every country has a different fiscal system.

If The Vicidial Group is like any other American company, their gross receipts are tracked by their Merchant Account and any attempt to hide that from the IRS would simply fail. So ... your threats are empty and you'll not likely get satisfaction in that manner.

Again your are trying me to exaplain how the american system works without any sign that you can think that in other parts of the world the fiscal system can be different. On the other hand I can inform you that a couple of years ago I get an invoice from Mr. Florell without after I send an email. So I don't understand what do you want to tell me.

Patience and politeness, on the other hand, may get you an invoice if you change your tone.

Just sayin' ...

(Note: I am not in any way related to or associated with The Vicidial Group or Mr. Florell, this is merely friendly advice/information ...)

You can say whatever you want but if I'm not presenting an invoice this month I will loose the money. I mean I will not get an reimburserment from the company.
So thank you for you friendly information but I didn't ask how the american system work. Next time when someone ask me that I'll just copy/paste your post.
I ask for an invoice (which I did before and I get it so the american system allow me to get an invocie) and I present the way I see a company who don't want to give me an invoice. So If in your eyes:
- asking for an invoice it is a not polite,
- 30 days of waiting a response to an email is lack of patience
- showing a different point of view is a threat
then yes I'm not polite, patient and friendly.


Andrei

[mflorell]

When you purchase the manuals from vicidial.org you have to use Paypal. Paypal provides an itemized receipt through email detailing what it was that you purchased, "Receipt for your PayPal payment to...". I am not understanding how this invoice provided by Paypal is not proof enough of a purchase for your accounting purposes.

We have had many people from Europe buy the manuals, and we do not get requests for additional invoices, so I guess I'm not understanding the problem you have with the Paypal invoice. It is not our policy to issue a duplicate invoice for manuals purchased through Paypal on our web store. We do not manually issue invoices for two reasons:
1. Paypal already provides an invoice
2. We would have to enter in every customer into our consulting accounting system and manually create an invoice, and then NULL out the invoice because it is already accounted for in our Paypal account. This is a lot of work for duplicating something that already is accounted for, so we don't do it.

[andrei.miron]

Here in Romanian accounting system an invoice is not the same thing as a receipt. I can explain you why they are different but I think is futile. It seems that for you it is not important what the customer needs but how minimize your work.
Also it is very interesting that a few years ago you issued an invoice to me without a problem.

So Mr. Florell thank you for your response (even it is after 30 days of hte inquire).

Andrei

[mflorell]

Unless you last purchased the manuals under a different name, it hasn't been a "couple years" since you last purchased the manuals, it's been 4 years. And I have no record of any invoices in our system for you or your company.

Looking back in our Paypal receipts for the last six years, 10 people from Romania have purchased our manuals online. You are the only one that has ever requested a manual invoice. It seems that the other 9 purchasers from Romania are not under the same kind of financial reporting requirements that you claim you under.

I'm just having a hard time understanding why a "Receipt" is unacceptable for financial reporting purposes for you, but it's just fine for everyone else from your country.

[andrei.miron]

Maybe you are right and you never send me an invoice.

If we'll meet sometime I'll explain you why a receipt is unacceptable for financial reporting.

By the way my other purchases (just for the record) are 69129 and 68569.

[williamconley]

It would appear that you simply violated company rules by making a purchase without an invoice to "file". And the company tells you that it is a government regulation, when in fact it is merely a corporate policy (which they can certainly enforce on their employees and contractors, with or without explanation).

On the other hand, andrei, you did not mention whether you had indeed printed out your paypal invoice. Or tried to. Maybe that has what you need on it ...?

[andrei.miron]

William thanks for the idea. You are a brilliant man. How can I didn't thought at printing the PayPal invoice.

On the other hand I want to give you something back so: William here in Romania, Europe we learn at school that people names are written with the first letter in capital. So your name is William not william.