Multiple call centers on a single server

[saeedahmad1981]

Hi all,

Can we create such environment where each call center has their own admin/agents/recordings and all other feature on same VD+AST server?

Thanks

[mflorell]

We don't advise such a setup and you will run into several obsticals setting it up, but it should be technically possible.

[PrimePro]

Was looking for the same setup. The general term used is "multi tenant"...it's possible as I know some people that have the feature....BUT.... based on the numbers I was quoted be prepared to pay $10K + for that code.

[codehaxor]

can be done through virtualization, i recommend using openvz

[gardo]

The issue with virtualization is that Vicidial doesn't run well on virtualized environments due to the virtual machine's limitations. It doesn't have a timer source that is used by Vicidial/Asterisk for it's meetme conferences.

[Op3r]

multi tenant as the TS wants is posible.

It's just a matter of touching almost all the scripts?

But seriously we are all just waiting for sponsors for this feature.

[codehaxor]

vicidial can work well depending on how you set it up in a virtual environment, i would recommend the use of openvz, and a debian 64 bit template and a split server environment. We have a central non virtualized database server and a central non virtualized web server and another multi core server for the virtualized asterisk servers, we have tried 10 agents on a virtualized single asterisk server with asterisk 1.2.30 and zaptel 1.4 and the results are good.

we have 4 virtualized asterisk servers per machine.

what is nice with openvz is that you can install x100p cards on the host node and assign each of them to your virtualized asterisk servers, so in a way each virtual asterisk server can have access to a real timing device.

we also had to modify openvz to support zaptel for our live migration feature.

also its not only meetme thats a big hurdle in a virtualized environment but also the AGI scripts.

again if you want to try it out i suggest you avoid a CENTOS template and use a Debian etch 64 bit template as to avoid defunct processes which will crash your virtual container


love,
dax

[gardo]

That's good to hear even if it's not a full virtualization setup since the web and database are on a dedicated server. How's the performance with more than 10 agents?

[mxtreme311]

I'm not sure if this is possible on a single server, but I know you can run multiple tenant setup collaborating some of the servers. For instance I have a multi tenant setup all using one webserver and one database server and then seperate dialers for each "tenant"... works beautifully.

[williamconley]

10 agents with how many calls per agent?

Broadcast/Press One or live agent?

I've never heard "10 agents" before, but then again this does say "tried" ... "results are good" ... leads me to believe that this is not a "production" box running 10 agents all the time. More like a "hey! it worked!" and then shut it down.

A good beginning, if it's true, but is it actually Live and running 10 agents on a 3:1 campaign every day?

And then comes the other concept, if you can only have 4 per server, and you want multi-tenant, you have to build a new box for every 4 clients.

$10k for multi-tenant does seem kind of high to me, though.

Hm. Tough call.

[codehaxor]

sadly its a production box running for 6 months already, thats the setup we have with our hosted vicidial platform, we havent gone beyond 10 agents but the results are good, we only had the asterisk servers virtualized, with another separate ISCSI record server via NTFS, our central web and db are real servers.

the first distro we tried was centos but we encountered defunct processes (AGI) that eventually killed our container, but it solved when we moved to debian, we also had call quality issues but it was solved by putting in 2 x100p cards in the hardware node and let each asterisk container access it as a timing device.


10,000$ USD is quite high for that kind of setup unless its really fully modified, mostly its done by alligators in our industry, ever heard of a 6,000$ USD vicidial multi server auto installer, which is more expensive?

[williamconley]

OK, it's getting closer to seeming real to me ...

It's a production box, with 10 agents, 6 months running ...

How many lines per agent?

Are there three other Virtual machines running as well (that's a bonus, not really necessary, a SINGLE virtual machine with 10 agents and 3:1 dialing would be beautiful for those wanting to easily test this system ...)

I'm not sure of the x100p for each virtual machine (sort of throws the "just load it up to test it" thing right out the window), but it is progress nonetheless!

[codehaxor]

Heres the setup on our end

1 Real Central DB Server
1 Real Central Web Server
1 ISCSI Central Record Server via NTFS
1 Hardware Node with 4 asterisk containers (debian etch template)
2 x100p card on the hardware node

Line to Agent Call ratio 3:1
HN Running on Debian Etch and OpenVZ
Live migration fully working


The real resource hog are the AGI scripts specially when AMD is active, meetme does not consume alot.

Its a work in progress

[mflorell]

Managing the resources on multi-tenant is also very difficult since it does not scale very high on a single server. Imagine having 4 tenants each with 10 agents which is about the maximum that your system can handle.

Then one of the tenants decides to add a few more agents, or have 10 people monitor sessions at the same time, or they hit a bad list and are more rapidly dialing. Now all of a sudden you have bad audio across the whole server because of one customer, and you now have 4 unhappy customers.

Putting in controls into the admin interface to manage resources to prevent things like this from happening would take quite a lot of work. I believe I actually quoted the $10k figure because at one point I estimated that it would take about 100 hours to make the necessary changes to the admin interface and the rest of the VICIDIAL codebase to make it possible to do multi-tenant in a proper way.

We have had reports of OpenVZ working(but it is more correctly called a chrooted environment, not a virtual machine environment) but there are still issues with it, and you cannot get the capacity out of 4 separate installs as you could out of a single install on the same hardware of course.

We offer our hosting service only on a per-server basis, and the servers are dedicated hardware for every customer. We also offer shared database and web servers depending on customer needs. With this setup we have had very good results, and one client's actions do not afffect other clients.

[williamconley]

And I notice that there are still some "assumed" pieces missing.

I did hear 3:1 dialing. I did hear 10 agents on one machine. I did hear 4 machines on one box. The puzzle pieces are building. Now: What was the usage on the OTHER machines when this was happening?

As it stands, that WOULD be viable for a "Test" machine (to allow virtual box users to play with the software for testing purposes) IF it didn't require an x100p. So it is close for that portion.

But I haven't heard that this was happening on more than one box at the same time. It's sort of "suggested" but not stated, and in forums and political matters that's often a dead giveaway for "NOT happening".

If it IS 10 agents 3:1 dialing on 4 separate virtual machines, that's cool. But if it isn't ... Then it's just a testing scenario that requires the ability to run without the hardware so it can be useful for no-investment testers.

What do you mean by "chrooted not virtual machine"? Would this mean that this type of environment can't be copied like a standard virtual machine can?

[mflorell]

The openVZ implementation was using 4 OpenVZ sessions on a quad core server. There was a maximum of 10 agents on each session across the four sessions and the server was pretty much maxed out. There was also no recording on this machine and all channels were ULAW. This was in a dialer-only role, with the database and web server on other machines.

According to the people that did this, there were many issues with this setup and there are still some random issues. It is by no means an easy to duplicate solution at this point. They worked on this for several months to get it to the point where it worked most of the time. Not sure what their plans are for it for the future, but they still have not put outside clients on it to this point, they are using it only for internal operations.

For more info on how exactly OpenVZ operates:
http://wiki.openvz.org/Main_Page

[williamconley]

ok, thanks for the clarity. i get requests all the time for people who just want to pop on a virtual box and try it with 10 agents to see if they like the system. presently i just tell them to pop in vicidialNOW in a spare server they aren't using for anything else (or even an old dell off-lease).

but for some reason, that "wipe the hard drive" thing freaks people out. like ... if you can afford salary for 10 sales reps, the expense of reformatting one hard drive is unthinkable. I think it's just because there's a lack of Linux people out there in the world.

Funny thing is, Vicidial is responsible for a LOT of linux conversions. A Lot.

[mxtreme311]

You are very correct. Our company used to use Windows based dialers and we had Windows desktops, now we don't have a single Windows machine company wide (except for accounting, they still use it), we are completely Linux based, and that has done wonders for my I.T. budget!!!